2 Corinthians 11:3 Bible in Basic English (BBE)

3 But I have a fear, that in some way, as Eve was tricked by the deceit of the snake, your minds may be turned away from their simple and holy love for Christ.

Cross Reference

2 Peter 2:1-14 BBE

But there were false prophets among the people, as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly put forward wrong teachings for your destruction, even turning away from the Lord who gave himself for them; whose destruction will come quickly, and they themselves will be the cause of it. And a great number will go with them in their evil ways, through whom the true way will have a bad name. And in their desire for profit they will come to you with words of deceit, like traders doing business in souls: whose punishment has been ready for a long time and their destruction is watching for them. For if God did not have pity for the angels who did evil, but sent them down into hell, to be kept in chains of eternal night till they were judged; And did not have mercy on the world which then was, but only kept safe Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when he let loose the waters over the world of the evil-doers; And sent destruction on Sodom and Gomorrah, burning them up with fire as an example to those whose way of life might in the future be unpleasing to him; And kept safe Lot, the upright man, who was deeply troubled by the unclean life of the evil-doers (Because the soul of that upright man living among them was pained from day to day by seeing and hearing their crimes): The Lord is able to keep the upright safe in the time of testing, and to keep evil-doers under punishment till the day of judging; But specially those who go after the unclean desires of the flesh, and make sport of authority. Ready to take chances, uncontrolled, they have no fear of saying evil of those in high places: Though the angels, who are greater in strength and power, do not make use of violent language against them before the Lord. But these men, like beasts without reason, whose natural use is to be taken and put to death, crying out against things of which they have no knowledge, will undergo that same destruction which they are designing for others; For the evil which overtakes them is the reward of their evil-doing: such men take their pleasure in the delights of the flesh even in the daytime; they are like the marks of a disease, like poisoned wounds among you, feasting together with you in joy; Having eyes full of evil desire, never having enough of sin; turning feeble souls out of the true way; they are children of cursing, whose hearts are well used to bitter envy;

2 Timothy 4:3-4 BBE

For the time will come when they will not take the true teaching; but, moved by their desires, they will get for themselves a great number of teachers for the pleasure of hearing them; And shutting their ears to what is true, will be turned away to belief in foolish stories.

Acts 20:30-31 BBE

And from among yourselves will come men who will give wrong teaching, turning away the disciples after them. So keep watch, having in mind that for three years without resting I was teaching every one of you, day and night, with weeping.

Romans 16:18-19 BBE

For such people are not servants of the Lord Christ, but of their stomachs; and by their smooth and well-said words the hearts of those who have no knowledge of evil are tricked. For all have knowledge of how you do what you are ordered. For this reason I have joy in you, but it is my desire that you may be wise in what is good, and without knowledge of evil.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 BBE

For such men are false Apostles, workers of deceit, making themselves seem like Apostles of Christ. And it is no wonder; for even Satan himself is able to take the form of an angel of light. So it is no great thing if his servants make themselves seem to be servants of righteousness; whose end will be the reward of their works.

2 Corinthians 12:20-21 BBE

For I have a fear that, when I come, you may not be answering to my desire, and that I may not be answering to yours; that there may be fighting, hate, angry feeling, divisions, evil talk about others, secrets, thoughts of pride, outbursts against authority; And that when I come again, my God may put me to shame among you, and I may have grief for those who have done wrong before and have had no regret for their unclean ways, and for the evil desires of the flesh to which they have given way.

Philippians 3:18-19 BBE

For there are those, of whom I have given you word before, and do so now with sorrow, who are haters of the cross of Christ; Whose end is destruction, whose god is the stomach, and whose glory is in their shame, whose minds are fixed on the things of the earth.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-11 BBE

Give no belief to false words: because there will first be a falling away from the faith, and the revelation of the man of sin, the son of destruction, Who puts himself against all authority, lifting himself up over all which is named God or is given worship; so that he takes his seat in the Temple of God, putting himself forward as God. Have you no memory of what I said when I was with you, giving you word of these things? And now it is clear to you what is keeping back his revelation till the time comes for him to be seen. For the secret of evil is even now at work: but there is one who is keeping back the evil till he is taken out of the way. And then will come the revelation of that evil one, whom the Lord Jesus will put to death with the breath of his mouth, and give to destruction by the revelation of his coming; Even the one whose coming is marked by the working of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, And with every deceit of wrongdoing among those whose fate is destruction; because they were quite without that love of the true faith by which they might have salvation. And for this cause, God will give them up to the power of deceit and they will put their faith in what is false:

1 Timothy 4:1-4 BBE

But the Spirit says clearly that in later times some will be turned away from the faith, giving their minds to spirits of deceit, and the teachings of evil spirits, Through the false ways of men whose words are untrue, whose hearts are burned as with a heated iron; Who keep men from being married and from taking food which God made to be taken with praise by those who have faith and true knowledge. Because everything which God has made is good, and nothing is evil, if it is taken with praise:

2 Timothy 3:1-9 BBE

But be certain of this, that in the last days times of trouble will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, uplifted in pride, given to bitter words, going against the authority of their fathers, never giving praise, having no religion, Without natural love, bitter haters, saying evil of others, violent and uncontrolled, hating all good, False to their friends, acting without thought, lifted up in mind, loving pleasure more than God; Having a form of religion, but turning their backs on the power of it: go not with these. For these are they who go secretly into houses, making prisoners of foolish women, weighted down with sin, turned from the way by their evil desires, Ever learning, and never coming to the knowledge of what is true. And as James and Jambres went against Moses, so do these go against what is true: men of evil minds, who, tested by faith, are seen to be false. But they will go no farther: for their foolish behaviour will be clear to all men, as theirs was in the end.

Commentary on 2 Corinthians 11 Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible


CHAPTER 11

2Co 11:1-33. Through Jealousy over the Corinthians, Who Made More Account of the False Apostles Than of Him, He Is Obliged to Commend Himself as in Many Respects Superior.

1. Would to God—Translate as Greek, "I would that."

bear with me—I may ask not unreasonably to be borne with; not so the false apostles (2Co 11:4, 20).

my—not in the oldest manuscripts.

folly—The Greek is a milder term than that for "foolishness" in 1Co 3:19; Mt 5:22; 25:2. The Greek for "folly" here implies imprudence; the Greek for "foolishness" includes the idea of perversity and wickedness.

and indeed bear—A request (so 2Co 11:16). But the Greek and the sense favor the translation, "But indeed (I need not wish it, for) ye do bear with me"; still I wish you to bear with me further, while I enter at large into self-commendations.

2. For I am jealous—The justification of his self-commendations lies in his zealous care lest they should fall from Christ, to whom he, as "the friend of the Bridegroom" (Joh 3:29), has espoused them; in order to lead them back from the false apostles to Christ, he is obliged to boast as an apostle of Christ, in a way which, but for the motive, would be "folly."

godly jealousy—literally, "jealousy of God" (compare 2Co 1:12, "godly sincerity," literally, "sincerity of God"). "If I am immoderate, I am immoderate to God" [Bengel]. A jealousy which has God's honor at heart (1Ki 19:10).

I … espoused you—Paul uses a Greek term applied properly to the bridegroom, just as he ascribes to himself "jealousy," a feeling properly belonging to the husband; so entirely does he identify himself with Christ.

present you as a chaste virgin to Christ—at His coming, when the heavenly marriage shall take place (Mt 25:6; Re 19:7, 9). What Paul here says he desires to do, namely, "present" the Church as "a chaste virgin" to Christ, Christ Himself is said to do in the fuller sense. Whatever ministers do effectively, is really done by Christ (Eph 5:27-32). The espousals are going on now. He does not say "chaste virgins"; for not individual members, but the whole body of believers conjointly constitute the Bride.

3. I fear—(2Co 12:20); not inconsistent with love. His source of fear was their yielding character.

subtilty—the utter foe of the "simplicity" which is intent on ONE object, Jesus, and seeks none "other," and no "other" and different Spirit (2Co 11:4); but loves him with tender SINGLENESS OF AFFECTION. Where Eve first gave way, was in mentally harboring for a moment the possibility insinuated by the serpent, of God not having her truest interests at heart, and of this "other" professing friend being more concerned for her than God.

corrupted—so as to lose their virgin purity through seducers (2Co 11:4). The same Greek stands for "minds" as for "thoughts" (2Co 10:5, also see on 2Co 10:5); intents of the will, or mind. The oldest manuscripts after "simplicity," add, "and the purity" or "chastity."

in Christ—rather, "that is towards Christ."

4. if, &c.—which in fact is impossible. However, if it were possible, ye might then bear with them (see on 2Co 11:1). But there can be no new Gospel; there is but the one which I first preached; therefore it ought not to be "borne" by you, that the false teachers should attempt to supersede me.

he that cometh—the high-sounding title assumed by the false teachers, who arrogated Christ's own peculiar title (Greek, Mt 11:3, and Heb 10:37), "He that is coming." Perhaps he was leader of the party which assumed peculiarly to be "Christ's" (2Co 10:7; 1Co 1:12); hence his assumption of the title.

preacheth … receive—is preaching … ye are receiving.

Jesus—the "Jesus" of Gospel history. He therefore does not say "Christ," which refers to the office.

another … another—Greek, "another Jesus … a different Spirit … a different Gospel." Another implies a distinct individual of the same kind; different implies one quite distinct in kind.

which ye have not received—from us.

spirit … received … gospel … accepted—The will of man is passive in RECEIVING the "Spirit"; but it is actively concurrent with the will of God (which goes before to give the good will) in ACCEPTING the "Gospel."

ye might well bear with him—There would be an excuse for your conduct, though a bad one (for ye ought to give heed to no Gospel other than what ye have already heard from me, Ga 1:6, 7); but the false teachers do not even pretend they have "another Jesus" and a "different Gospel" to bring before you; they merely try to supplant me, your accredited Teacher. Yet ye not only "bear with" them, but prefer them.

5. For—My claim is superior to that of the false teachers, "For," &c.

I suppose—I reckon [Alford].

I was not—Greek, "That I have not been, and am not."

the very chiefest apostles—James, Peter, and John, the witnesses of Christ's transfiguration and agony in Gethsemane. Rather, "those overmuch apostles," those surpassers of the apostles in their own esteem. This sense is proved by the fact that the context contains no comparison between him and the apostles, but only between him and the false teachers; 2Co 11:6 also alludes to these, and not to the apostles; compare also the parallel phrase, "false apostles" (see on 2Co 11:13 and 2Co 12:11) [Alford].

6. rude—Greek, "a common man"; a "laic"; not rhetorically trained; unskilled in finish of diction. 1Co 2:1-4, 13; 2Co 10:10, 11, shows his words were not without weight, though his "speech" was deficient in oratorical artifice. "Yet I am not so in my knowledge" (2Co 12:1-5; Eph 3:1-5).

have been … made manifest—Read with the oldest manuscripts, "We have made things (Gospel truths) manifest," thus showing our "knowledge." English Version would mean, I leave it to yourselves to decide whether I be rude in speech … : for we have been thoroughly (literally, "in everything") made manifest among you (literally, "in respect to you"; "in relation to you"). He had not by reserve kept back his "knowledge" in divine mysteries from them (2Co 2:17; 4:2; Ac 20:20, 27).

in all things—The Greek rather favors the translation, "among all men"; the sense then is, we have manifested the whole truth among all men with a view to your benefit [Alford]. But the Greek in Php 4:12, "In each thing and in all things," sanctions English Version, which gives a clearer sense.

7. Have I—literally, "Or have I?" Connected with 2Co 11:6, "Or will any of you make it an objection that I have preached to you gratuitously?" He leaves their good feeling to give the answer, that this, so far from being an objection, was a decided superiority in him above the false apostles (1Co 9:6-15).

abasing myself—in my mode of living, waiving my right of maintenance, and earning it by manual labor; perhaps with slaves as his fellow laborers (Ac 18:3; Php 4:12).

ye … exalted—spiritually, by your admission to Gospel privileges.

because—"in that."

gospel of God—"of God" implies its divine glory to which they were admitted.

freely—"without charge."

8. I robbed—that is, took from them in order to spare you more than what was their fair share of contribution to my maintenance, for example, the Philippian Church (Php 4:15, 16).

wages—"subsidy."

to do you service—Greek, "with a view to ministration to you"; compare "supplied" (Greek, "in addition"), 2Co 11:9, implying, he brought with him from the Macedonians, supplies towards his maintenance at Corinth; and (2Co 11:9) when those resources failed ("when I wanted") he received a new supply, while there, from the same source.

9. wanted—"was in want."

chargeable—Greek, "burdensome," literally, "to torpify," and so to oppress. Jerome says it is a Cilician word (2Co 12:14, 16).

the brethren which came—rather, as Greek, "the brethren when they came." Perhaps Timotheus and Silas (Ac 8:1, 5). Compare Php 4:15, 16, which refers to donations received from the Philippians (who were in Macedonia) at two distinct periods ("once and again"), one at Thessalonica, the other after his departure from Macedonia, that is, when he came into Achaia to Corinth (from the church in which city he would receive no help); and this "in the beginning of the Gospel," that is, at its first preaching in these parts. Thus all three, the two Epistles and history, mutually, and no doubt undesignedly, coincide; a sure test of genuineness.

supplied—Greek, "supplied in addition," namely, in addition to their former contributions; or as Bengel, in addition to the supply obtained by my own manual labor.

10. Greek, "There is (the) truth of Christ in me that," &c. (Ro 9:1).

no man shall stop me of—The oldest manuscripts read, "This boasting shall not be shut (that is, stopped) as regards me." "Boasting is as it were personified … shall not have its mouth stopped as regards me" [Alford].

11. Love is often offended at its favors being not accepted, as though the party to whom they are offered wished to be under no obligation to the offerer.

12. I will do—I will continue to decline help.

occasion—Greek, "the occasion," namely, of misrepresenting my motives, which would be afforded to my detractors, if I accepted help.

that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we—Bengel joins this clause with "the occasion," namely, of glorying or boasting; the occasion "that they may be found (a point wherein they glory) even as we," that is, quite as disinterested, or virtually, quite as gain-seeking and self-seeking. It cannot mean that the false teachers taught gratuitously even as Paul (compare 2Co 11:20; 1Co 9:12). Alford less clearly explains by reference to 2Co 11:18, &c., where the "glorying" here is taken up and described as "glorying after the flesh"; thus it means, that in the matters of which they beast they may be found even as we, that is, we may been a fair and equal footing; that there may be no adventitious comparisons made between us, arising out of misrepresentations of my course of procedure, but that in every matter of boasting we may be fairly compared and judged by facts; FOR (2Co 11:13) realities they have none, no weapons but misrepresentation, being false apostles.

13. For—reason why he is unwilling they should be thought like him [Bengel].

such—they and those like them.

false apostles—those "overmuch apostles" (see on 2Co 11:5) are no apostles at all.

deceitful workers—pretending to be "workmen" for the Lord, and really seeking their own gain.

14. is transformed—rather, "transforms himself" (compare Job 1:6); habitually; the first occasion of his doing so was in tempting Eve. "Himself" is emphatical: If their master himself, who is the "prince of darkness," the most alien to light, does so, it is less marvellous in the case of them who are his servants (Lu 22:54; Eph 6:12).

15. no great thing—no difficult matter.

if his ministers also—as well as himself.

righteousness—answering to "light" (2Co 11:14); the manifestation wherewith God reveals Himself in Christ (Mt 6:33; Ro 1:17).

end—The test of things is the end which strips off every specious form into which Satan's agents may now "transform" themselves (compare Php 3:19, 21).

according to their works—not according to their pretensions.

16. I say again—again taking up from 2Co 11:1 the anticipatory apology for his boasting.

if otherwise—but if ye will not grant this; if ye will think me a fool.

yet as a fool—"yet even as a fool receive me"; grant me the indulgent hearing conceded even to one suspected of folly. The Greek denotes one who does not rightly use his mental powers; not having the idea of blame necessarily attached to it; one deceived by foolish vanities, yet boasting himself [Tittmann], (2Co 11:17, 19).

that I—The oldest manuscripts read, "that I, too," namely, as well as they, may boast myself.

17. not after the Lord—By inspired guidance he excepts this "glorying" or "boasting" from the inspired authoritativeness which belongs to all else that he wrote; even this boasting, though undesirable in itself, was permitted by the Spirit, taking into account its aim, namely, to draw off the Corinthians from their false teachers to the apostle. Therefore this passage gives no proof that any portion of Scripture is uninspired. It merely guards against his boasting being made a justification of boasting in general, which is not ordinarily "after the Lord," that is, consistent with Christian humility.

foolishly—Greek, "in foolishness."

confidence of boasting—(2Co 9:4).

18. many—including the "false teachers."

after the flesh—as fleshly men are wont to boast, namely, of external advantages, as their birth, doings, &c. (compare 2Co 11:22).

I will glory also—that is, I also will boast of such fleshly advantages, to show you that even in these I am not their inferiors, and therefore ought not to be supplanted by them in your esteem; though these are not what I desire to glory in (2Co 10:17).

19. gladly—willingly. Irony. A plea why they should "bear with" (2Co 11:1) him in his folly, that is, boasting; ye are, in sooth, so "wise" (1Co 4:8, 10; Paul's real view of their wisdom was very different, 1Co 3:1-4) yourselves that ye can "bear with" the folly of others more complacently. Not only can ye do so, but ye are actually doing this and more.

20. For—Ye may well "bear with" fools; for ye even "bear with" oppressors. Translate, "Ye bear with them."

a man—as the false apostles do.

bring you into bondage—to himself. Translate "brings," not "bring"; for the case is not merely a supposed case, but a case actually then occurring. Also "devours" (namely, by exactions, Mt 23:24; Ps 53:4), "takes," "exalts," "smites."

take of you—So the Greek for "take" is used for "take away from" (Re 6:4). Alford translates, as in 2Co 12:16, "catches you."

exalt himself—under the pretext of apostolic dignity.

smite you on the face—under the pretext of divine zeal. The height of insolence on their part, and of servile endurance on yours (1Ki 22:24; Ne 13:25; Lu 22:64; Ac 23:2; 1Ti 3:3).

21. as concerning reproach—rather, "by way of dishonor (that is, self-disparagement) I say it."

as though we … weak—in not similarly (2Co 11:20) showing our power over you. "An ironical reminiscence of his own abstinence when among them from all these acts of self-exaltation at their expense" (as if such abstinence was weakness) [Alford]. The "we" is emphatically contrasted with the false teachers who so oppressively displayed their power. I speak so as though WE had been weak when with you, because we did not show our power this way. Howbeit (we are not really weak; for), whereinsoever any is bold … I am bold also.

22. Hebrews … Israelites … the seed of Abraham—A climax. "Hebrews," referring to the language and nationality; "Israelites," to the theocracy and descent from Israel, the "prince who prevailed with God" (Ro 9:4); "the seed of Abraham," to the claim to a share in the Messiah (Ro 11:1; 9:7). Compare Php 3:5, "An Hebrew of the Hebrews," not an Hellenist or Greek-speaking Jew, but a Hebrew in tongue, and sprung from Hebrews.

23. I speak as a fool—rather, as Greek, "I speak as if beside myself"; stronger than "as a fool."

I am more—namely, in respect to the credentials and manifestations of my ministry, more faithful and self-denying; and richer in tokens of God's recognition of my ministry. Old authorities read the order thus, "In prisons above measures, in stripes more abundantly" (English Version, less accurately, "more frequent"). Ac 16:23-40 records one case of his imprisonment with stripes. Clement of Rome [First Epistle to the Corinthians] describes him as having suffered bonds seven times.

in death oft—(2Co 4:10; Ac 9:23; 13:50; 14:5, 6, 19; 17:5, 13).

24. De 25:3 ordained that not more than forty stripes should be inflicted To avoid exceeding this number, they gave one short of it: thirteen strokes with a treble lash [Bengel]. This is one of those minute agreements with Jewish usage, which a forger would have not been likely to observe.

25. The beating by Roman magistrates at Philippi (Ac 16:23) is the only one recorded in Acts, which does not profess to give a complete journal of his life, but only a sketch of it in connection with the design of the book, namely, to give an outline of the history of the Gospel Church from its foundation at Jerusalem, to the period of its reaching Rome, the capital of the Gentile world.

once was I stoned—(Ac 14:19).

thrice … shipwreck—before the shipwreck at Melita (Ac 27:44). Probably in some of his voyages from Tarsus, where he stayed for some time after his conversion, and from which, as being a seafaring place, he was likely to make missionary voyages to adjoining places (Ac 9:30; 11:25; Ga 1:21).

a night and a day … in the deep—probably in part swimming or in an open boat.

26. In—rather, "By": connected with 2Co 11:23, but now not with "in," as there, and as in 2Co 11:27, where again he passes to the idea of surrounding circumstances or environments [Alford, Ellicott and others].

waters—rather, as Greek, "rivers," namely, perils by the flooding of rivers, as on the road often traversed by Paul between Jerusalem and Antioch, crossed as it is by the torrents rushing down from Lebanon. So the traveller Sport lost his life.

robbers—perhaps in his journey from Perga to Antioch in Pisidia. Pisidia was notorious for robbers; as indeed were all the mountains that divided the high land of Asia from the sea.

the heathen—Gentiles.

in the city—Damascus, Ac 9:24, 25; Jerusalem, Ac 9:29; Ephesus, Ac 19:23.

false brethren—(Ga 2:4).

27. fastings—voluntary, in order to kindle devotions (Ac 13:2, 3; 14:23; 1Co 9:27); for they are distinguished from "hunger and thirst," which were involuntary [Grotius]. However, see on 2Co 6:5. The context refers solely to hardships, not to self-imposed devotional mortification. "Hunger and thirst" are not synonymous with "foodlessness" (as the Greek of "fasting" means), but are its consequences.

cold … nakedness—"cold" resulting from "nakedness," or insufficient clothing, as the Greek often means: as "hunger and thirst" result from "foodlessness." (Compare Ac 28:2; Ro 8:35). "When we remember that he who endured all this was a man constantly suffering from infirm health (2Co 4:7-12; 12:7-10; Ga 4:13, 14), such heroic self-devotion seems almost superhuman" [Conybeare and Howson].

28. without—"Beside" trials falling on me externally, just recounted, there is "that which cometh upon me (literally, the impetuous concourse to me of business; properly, a crowd rising up against one again and again, and ready to bear him down), the care of all the churches" (including those not yet seen in the flesh, Col 2:1): an internal and more weighty anxiety. But the oldest manuscripts for "that which cometh," read, "the pressure": "the pressing care-taking" or "inspection that is upon me daily." Alford translates, "Omitting what is BESIDES"; namely, those other trials besides those recounted. But the Vulgate, Estius, and Bengel, support English Version.

the care—The Greek implies, "my anxious solicitude for all the churches."

29. I … weak—in condescending sympathy with the weak (1Co 9:22). "Care generates sympathy, which causes the minister of Christ personally to enter into the feelings of all his people, as if he stood in their position, so as to accommodate himself to all" [Calvin].

offended—by some stumbling-block put in his way by others: the "weak" is most liable to be "offended."

I burn not—The "I" in the Greek is emphatic, which it is not in the former clause, "I am not weak." I not only enter into the feeling of the party offended, but I burn with indignation at the offender, I myself taking up his cause as my own. "Who meets with a stumbling-block and I am not disturbed even more than himself" [Neander].

30. glory of … infirmities—A striking contrast! Glorying or boasting of what others make matter of shame, namely, infirmities; for instance, his humbling mode of escape in a basket (2Co 11:33). A character utterly incompatible with that of an enthusiast (compare 2Co 12:5, 9, 10).

31. This solemn asseveration refers to what follows. The persecution at Damascus was one of the first and greatest, and having no human witness of it to adduce to the Corinthians, as being a fact that happened long before and was known to few, he appeals to God for its truth. Luke (Ac 9:25) afterwards recorded it (compare Ga 1:20), [Bengel]. It may ALSO refer to the revelation in 2Co 12:1, standing in beautiful contrast to his humiliating escape from Damascus.

32. governor—Greek, "Ethnarch": a Jewish officer to whom heathen rulers gave authority over Jews in large cities where they were numerous. He was in this case under Aretas, king of Arabia. Damascus was in a Roman province. But at this time, A.D. 38 or 39, three years after Paul's conversion, A.D. 36, Aretas, against whom the Emperor Tiberius as the ally of Herod Agrippa had sent an army under Vitellius, had got possession of Damascus on the death of the emperor, and the consequent interruption of Vitellius' operations. His possession of it was put an end to immediately after by the Romans [Neander]. Rather, it was granted by Caligula (A.D. 38) to Aretas, whose predecessors had possessed it. This is proved by our having no Damascus coins of Caligula or Claudius, though we do have of their immediate imperial predecessors and successors [Alford].